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	<title>Comments on: Proof</title>
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	<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/</link>
	<description>How can we live without the unknown before us? —Rene Char</description>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-132421</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 02:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-132421</guid>
		<description>Hi Rana - Thanks for stopping by. I think you&#039;re right: something about the shape of bowls (and cups or mugs) makes them uniquely attachment-worthy. They are almost maternal presences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rana &#8211; Thanks for stopping by. I think you&#8217;re right: something about the shape of bowls (and cups or mugs) makes them uniquely attachment-worthy. They are almost maternal presences.</p>
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		<title>By: Rana</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-132049</link>
		<dc:creator>Rana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 18:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-132049</guid>
		<description>I love the discussion here of not just the bread and the yeast, but the bowls in which such alchemy occurs.  There&#039;s something about a bowl, or a cup, that makes it easy to develop attachment to them; I have favorite bowls and cups in a way that doesn&#039;t seem to extend to things like plates.  I have two beloved baking bowls, one out of frosted glass, orange on the outside and white on the inside, that is in shape like an inverted, truncated cone.  The other is a simple large curved bowl that I painted with twining vines in one of those decorate-it-yourself pottery stores on one of my first dates with my partner D.  Aside from that aspect of it, it&#039;s perfect for holding rising bread, and is just the right size for a single pot&#039;s worth of popcorn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the discussion here of not just the bread and the yeast, but the bowls in which such alchemy occurs.  There&#8217;s something about a bowl, or a cup, that makes it easy to develop attachment to them; I have favorite bowls and cups in a way that doesn&#8217;t seem to extend to things like plates.  I have two beloved baking bowls, one out of frosted glass, orange on the outside and white on the inside, that is in shape like an inverted, truncated cone.  The other is a simple large curved bowl that I painted with twining vines in one of those decorate-it-yourself pottery stores on one of my first dates with my partner D.  Aside from that aspect of it, it&#8217;s perfect for holding rising bread, and is just the right size for a single pot&#8217;s worth of popcorn.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-130407</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-130407</guid>
		<description>David - I did read &lt;em&gt;The Book of Tea&lt;/em&gt; and some other stuff back in the day, but my memory&#039;s dim. But I think you&#039;re right, the wabi-sabi aesthetic that grew up with the tea ceremony in the Japanese middle ages gives homely objects center stage.

I did attend a tea ceremony once at the biggest Zen temple in Kyoto. Along with my American girlfriend, I was the guest of a quite exclusive club of wealthy housewives (almost all the traditional arts of Japan survive through the patronage of wealthy housewives). They were sitting in a large circle on the tatami mats, waiting for the ceremony to begin, when in we walked, the only two Westerners. They were trying to be polite and not stare when my forehead connected loudly with a low-hanging beam. I wouldn&#039;t describe it as a clunk; it was much more resonant than that, I&#039;m sure. We&#039;re talking an 800-year-old temple here. It really broke the ice though - maybe a little too much. An unfortunate undercurrent of mirth remained throughout the ceremony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David &#8211; I did read <em>The Book of Tea</em> and some other stuff back in the day, but my memory&#8217;s dim. But I think you&#8217;re right, the wabi-sabi aesthetic that grew up with the tea ceremony in the Japanese middle ages gives homely objects center stage.</p>
<p>I did attend a tea ceremony once at the biggest Zen temple in Kyoto. Along with my American girlfriend, I was the guest of a quite exclusive club of wealthy housewives (almost all the traditional arts of Japan survive through the patronage of wealthy housewives). They were sitting in a large circle on the tatami mats, waiting for the ceremony to begin, when in we walked, the only two Westerners. They were trying to be polite and not stare when my forehead connected loudly with a low-hanging beam. I wouldn&#8217;t describe it as a clunk; it was much more resonant than that, I&#8217;m sure. We&#8217;re talking an 800-year-old temple here. It really broke the ice though &#8211; maybe a little too much. An unfortunate undercurrent of mirth remained throughout the ceremony.</p>
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		<title>By: David Harmon</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-130307</link>
		<dc:creator>David Harmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-130307</guid>
		<description>No, no names for the yeast.  I wasn&#039;t quite that desperate. ;-)

Regarding attractive vs. non-attractive people, I&#039;ve said for a while that some of the ugliest people I&#039;ve known have been among the most beautiful, and vice versa.  

Regarding objects, are you familiar with Japanese tea-ceremony traditions?  Way back in college one of my courses included some history of the business.  Apparently, one of the mainstays of their &quot;high tradition&quot; was the collection and use of certain clay vessels for handling the tea, ranging from antique to ancient.  In conventional terms, these are quite ugly -- but the practitioners found their appearance worthy of meditation and poetry.

But there was one rather odd account, where a certain fellow single-handly introduced a new tradition, that of making new, temporary implements out of bamboo on the spot.  The readings did not give full details, but between the lines I sensed something to the effect of:  this guy was too poor to afford the traditional vessels, but he&#039;d managed to charm his way into &quot;the crowd&quot; -- well enough that the nobles, monks, etc were willing to let him make a new path to the tea ceremony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, no names for the yeast.  I wasn&#8217;t quite that desperate. ;-)</p>
<p>Regarding attractive vs. non-attractive people, I&#8217;ve said for a while that some of the ugliest people I&#8217;ve known have been among the most beautiful, and vice versa.  </p>
<p>Regarding objects, are you familiar with Japanese tea-ceremony traditions?  Way back in college one of my courses included some history of the business.  Apparently, one of the mainstays of their &#8220;high tradition&#8221; was the collection and use of certain clay vessels for handling the tea, ranging from antique to ancient.  In conventional terms, these are quite ugly &#8212; but the practitioners found their appearance worthy of meditation and poetry.</p>
<p>But there was one rather odd account, where a certain fellow single-handly introduced a new tradition, that of making new, temporary implements out of bamboo on the spot.  The readings did not give full details, but between the lines I sensed something to the effect of:  this guy was too poor to afford the traditional vessels, but he&#8217;d managed to charm his way into &#8220;the crowd&#8221; &#8212; well enough that the nobles, monks, etc were willing to let him make a new path to the tea ceremony.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-129752</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-129752</guid>
		<description>David - Pet yeasts, eh? Did you ever name them, either collectively or (not sure how) individually? I guess that would&#039;ve predated &lt;em&gt;Star Trek: The Next Generation&lt;/em&gt;, but I can see having a pet yeast colony called The Borg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David &#8211; Pet yeasts, eh? Did you ever name them, either collectively or (not sure how) individually? I guess that would&#8217;ve predated <em>Star Trek: The Next Generation</em>, but I can see having a pet yeast colony called The Borg.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-129745</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-129745</guid>
		<description>beth - I&#039;m glad you liked the post. What about Vermont reminds you of bread - just that that&#039;s where you&#039;re used to making it? I&#039;ve noticed that in your Montreal posts you&#039;re always going out to buy bread. Would it make it feel more like your permanent home if you began baking there?

In reference to your last comment, I&#039;m very interested in the sort of attachments that we form with homely objects, places and people. We can&#039;t call them unattractive, clearly, because there is &lt;em&gt;something&lt;/em&gt; about them, some charisma, that we do find attractive. (Someone once wrote about George Eliot that she was attractive in that way: when he first met her, he thought she was the ugliest woman he ever saw, but after ten minutes of conversation, he thought she was one of the most attractive.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>beth &#8211; I&#8217;m glad you liked the post. What about Vermont reminds you of bread &#8211; just that that&#8217;s where you&#8217;re used to making it? I&#8217;ve noticed that in your Montreal posts you&#8217;re always going out to buy bread. Would it make it feel more like your permanent home if you began baking there?</p>
<p>In reference to your last comment, I&#8217;m very interested in the sort of attachments that we form with homely objects, places and people. We can&#8217;t call them unattractive, clearly, because there is <em>something</em> about them, some charisma, that we do find attractive. (Someone once wrote about George Eliot that she was attractive in that way: when he first met her, he thought she was the ugliest woman he ever saw, but after ten minutes of conversation, he thought she was one of the most attractive.)</p>
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		<title>By: David Harmon</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-129744</link>
		<dc:creator>David Harmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-129744</guid>
		<description>I miss baking bread, I haven&#039;t had room for it since I moved down to NYC.

There were a few years when I was a kid, that my Mom wouldn&#039;t let me get a real pet, so I&#039;d keep dishes of &quot;pet yeasts&quot;....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I miss baking bread, I haven&#8217;t had room for it since I moved down to NYC.</p>
<p>There were a few years when I was a kid, that my Mom wouldn&#8217;t let me get a real pet, so I&#8217;d keep dishes of &#8220;pet yeasts&#8221;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: beth</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-129734</link>
		<dc:creator>beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-129734</guid>
		<description>This, and the fact that I&#039;m in Vermont now, make me want to get my hands on some dough - I haven&#039;t baked any bread for months. I liked what you wrote about the proofing and photography, and have somehow resisted the new yeasts that don&#039;t require this step - and Id never consider using self-rising flour! Our big heavy ceramic bread bowl is older than our marriage; beige with two stripes around the rim. It&#039;s actually one of the uglier objects in our kitchen but I don&#039;t think we&#039;d be able to part with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This, and the fact that I&#8217;m in Vermont now, make me want to get my hands on some dough &#8211; I haven&#8217;t baked any bread for months. I liked what you wrote about the proofing and photography, and have somehow resisted the new yeasts that don&#8217;t require this step &#8211; and Id never consider using self-rising flour! Our big heavy ceramic bread bowl is older than our marriage; beige with two stripes around the rim. It&#8217;s actually one of the uglier objects in our kitchen but I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;d be able to part with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-129702</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-129702</guid>
		<description>Zhoen - Funny you should mention oatmeal. I tossed a couple cups of rolled oats into Monday&#039;s batch of bread on an impulse. Give it a little extra oomph, I thought, but actually I can hardly tell the difference (which probably tells you something about my bread).

Beth - Ha! You are a way more serious chef than I am, to judge from your periodic (and usually mouth-watering) food posts. I am the not-so-high priest of casseroles, quiches and &quot;comfort food.&quot; Far from subtle, in other words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zhoen &#8211; Funny you should mention oatmeal. I tossed a couple cups of rolled oats into Monday&#8217;s batch of bread on an impulse. Give it a little extra oomph, I thought, but actually I can hardly tell the difference (which probably tells you something about my bread).</p>
<p>Beth &#8211; Ha! You are a way more serious chef than I am, to judge from your periodic (and usually mouth-watering) food posts. I am the not-so-high priest of casseroles, quiches and &#8220;comfort food.&#8221; Far from subtle, in other words.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth W.</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/proof/#comment-129693</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/04/17/proof/#comment-129693</guid>
		<description>As much as I cook, breadbaking -- and more specifically yeast handling - is still a mysterious sacramental rite to me. Those who do it are, in my mind, high priests and priestesses, holders of secrets and more subtle than I. 

Poor Scarbutt.  But lucky, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as I cook, breadbaking &#8212; and more specifically yeast handling &#8211; is still a mysterious sacramental rite to me. Those who do it are, in my mind, high priests and priestesses, holders of secrets and more subtle than I. </p>
<p>Poor Scarbutt.  But lucky, too.</p>
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