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	<title>Comments on: The hawthorn place</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/</link>
	<description>How can we live without the unknown before us? —Rene Char</description>
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		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7119</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7119</guid>
		<description>What a beautifully written post! I grew up with woods, but no Hawthorns, so I was intrigued. Now I want to plant some in the hedgerow of Larrapin Garden. Thanks for writing and sharing such a vivid remembering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a beautifully written post! I grew up with woods, but no Hawthorns, so I was intrigued. Now I want to plant some in the hedgerow of Larrapin Garden. Thanks for writing and sharing such a vivid remembering.</p>
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		<title>By: mb</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7118</link>
		<dc:creator>mb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7118</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a striking shot of frost-rimmed (rimed?) branches. Has the feel of another secret place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a striking shot of frost-rimmed (rimed?) branches. Has the feel of another secret place.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7117</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7117</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that terrific quote, MB. I thought about trying to work in a Roethke reference yet, but was afraid it would make the post too long. My parents named the field before they knew about the book, but becasue Roethke used to teach (briefly) at Penn State, found a copy of &lt;em&gt;The Far Field&lt;/em&gt; in a local bookstore soon thereafter. I actually prefer the name our hunters give it, the Back Field, as I mentioned in the caption to &lt;a href=&quot;http://woodrat.shutterchance.com/photoblog/back_field_/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this photo&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that terrific quote, MB. I thought about trying to work in a Roethke reference yet, but was afraid it would make the post too long. My parents named the field before they knew about the book, but becasue Roethke used to teach (briefly) at Penn State, found a copy of <em>The Far Field</em> in a local bookstore soon thereafter. I actually prefer the name our hunters give it, the Back Field, as I mentioned in the caption to <a href="http://woodrat.shutterchance.com/photoblog/back_field_/" rel="nofollow">this photo</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: mb</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7116</link>
		<dc:creator>mb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7116</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve got me wondering how universal the delight in secret places is. Seems like it should be, if it isn&#039;t.

And thinking of Roethke&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Far Field&lt;/i&gt;:

&lt;i&gt;All finite things reveal infinitude: 
The mountain with its singular bright shade
Like the blue shine on freshly frozen snow, 
The after-light upon ice-burdened pines;
Odor of basswood on a mountain-slope,
A scent beloved of bees;
Silence of water above a sunken tree : 
The pure serene of memory in one man, --
A ripple widening from a single stone
Winding around the waters of the world.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve got me wondering how universal the delight in secret places is. Seems like it should be, if it isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>And thinking of Roethke&#8217;s <i>The Far Field</i>:</p>
<p><i>All finite things reveal infinitude:<br />
The mountain with its singular bright shade<br />
Like the blue shine on freshly frozen snow,<br />
The after-light upon ice-burdened pines;<br />
Odor of basswood on a mountain-slope,<br />
A scent beloved of bees;<br />
Silence of water above a sunken tree :<br />
The pure serene of memory in one man, &#8211;<br />
A ripple widening from a single stone<br />
Winding around the waters of the world.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7115</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7115</guid>
		<description>Well, this post really seems to have struck a nerve!

anita - Thanks for stopping by! Glad your mom twisted your arm. i enjoyed your post.

Theriomorph - No, I&#039;m sure it sin&#039;t judgemental... except, as Chris&#039;s comment implies, in where they draw the line between superstition and religion. To me, the useful distinction is between folk/popular belief and official doctrine -- and I&#039;m always much more interested in the former (with the possible exception of Daoism: popular Daoism leaves me cold). So it seems to me that they could&#039;ve called it &quot;Dictionary of Folk Beliefs.&quot; A minor point, I suppose.

Chris - Thanks for stopping by. It figures that a desert rat like you would like hawthorns - they&#039;re a little like cacti, aren&#039;t they?

CadyMay - I was wondering when you&#039;d pop in again! I&#039;m glad this resonated with you. I&#039;m reasonably certain that if I showed someone one of my favorite places, they&#039;d probably be a bit underwhelmed -- unless they&#039;re under the age of ten and easily impressed. I had a good success rate with my niece Eva a couple years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, this post really seems to have struck a nerve!</p>
<p>anita &#8211; Thanks for stopping by! Glad your mom twisted your arm. i enjoyed your post.</p>
<p>Theriomorph &#8211; No, I&#8217;m sure it sin&#8217;t judgemental&#8230; except, as Chris&#8217;s comment implies, in where they draw the line between superstition and religion. To me, the useful distinction is between folk/popular belief and official doctrine &#8212; and I&#8217;m always much more interested in the former (with the possible exception of Daoism: popular Daoism leaves me cold). So it seems to me that they could&#8217;ve called it &#8220;Dictionary of Folk Beliefs.&#8221; A minor point, I suppose.</p>
<p>Chris &#8211; Thanks for stopping by. It figures that a desert rat like you would like hawthorns &#8211; they&#8217;re a little like cacti, aren&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>CadyMay &#8211; I was wondering when you&#8217;d pop in again! I&#8217;m glad this resonated with you. I&#8217;m reasonably certain that if I showed someone one of my favorite places, they&#8217;d probably be a bit underwhelmed &#8212; unless they&#8217;re under the age of ten and easily impressed. I had a good success rate with my niece Eva a couple years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: CadyMay</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7114</link>
		<dc:creator>CadyMay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7114</guid>
		<description>For my taste, this was an especially good post, Dave. Sucked me right in to walking with you as a boy and seeing everything lucidly and three dimensionally, even the angle of the hillside and the slant of the light on the thicket. The bulldozing of the orchard and decay of the old trees. When I got to the bucket with you, I could even smell the metallic and ashen smell. When is the novel coming? I could travel with you on a little longer written wander, by other rocks and trees and fruiting thickets.
Now I am wondering, if I saw one of your actual places, how closely your verbal painting of it would match my created reality. Or would it be lost, like a &quot;mis-remembered&quot; secret place?...
anyway, thanks for the total mental journey in this read, I needed to get away from the holler a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For my taste, this was an especially good post, Dave. Sucked me right in to walking with you as a boy and seeing everything lucidly and three dimensionally, even the angle of the hillside and the slant of the light on the thicket. The bulldozing of the orchard and decay of the old trees. When I got to the bucket with you, I could even smell the metallic and ashen smell. When is the novel coming? I could travel with you on a little longer written wander, by other rocks and trees and fruiting thickets.<br />
Now I am wondering, if I saw one of your actual places, how closely your verbal painting of it would match my created reality. Or would it be lost, like a &#8220;mis-remembered&#8221; secret place?&#8230;<br />
anyway, thanks for the total mental journey in this read, I needed to get away from the holler a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Clarke</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7113</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7113</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I&#039;ve looked at that book in the bookstore, but said to myself, â€œDo I really want a book that labels other peoples&#039; beliefs &#039;superstitions&#039;?â€?&lt;/em&gt;

Damn. One less buyer for my forthcoming &quot;Guide To The New Testament.&quot;

Lovely post, Dave. I miss hawthorns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I&#8217;ve looked at that book in the bookstore, but said to myself, â€œDo I really want a book that labels other peoples&#8217; beliefs &#8216;superstitions&#8217;?â€?</em></p>
<p>Damn. One less buyer for my forthcoming &#8220;Guide To The New Testament.&#8221;</p>
<p>Lovely post, Dave. I miss hawthorns.</p>
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		<title>By: Theriomorph</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7112</link>
		<dc:creator>Theriomorph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7112</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;â€œwe picked rocks.â€?&lt;/i&gt;

Me too. And we painted rocks with stream-dipped devil&#039;s/angel&#039;s paintbrushes. For hours. And hours. We opened rocks looking for geodes (with a highly advanced set of tools called &#039;a smasher rock&#039; and &#039;a table rock&#039;).

It&#039;s a great book, Dave. Nothing judgmental in it at all, either - they&#039;re folklorists, reporting the facts of folklore. It lacks origins/historical context, but that&#039;s fair, since if it included such it would be longer than the OED.

&lt;i&gt;I&#039;m quite sure that if/when the global economy goes down the tubes and kids no longer have high-tech gizmos to mesmerize them, they&#039;ll figure out how to play in the woods again fairly quickly. The only question at this point is whether there will still be any woods.&lt;/i&gt;

Truer words never said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>â€œwe picked rocks.â€?</i></p>
<p>Me too. And we painted rocks with stream-dipped devil&#8217;s/angel&#8217;s paintbrushes. For hours. And hours. We opened rocks looking for geodes (with a highly advanced set of tools called &#8216;a smasher rock&#8217; and &#8216;a table rock&#8217;).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a great book, Dave. Nothing judgmental in it at all, either &#8211; they&#8217;re folklorists, reporting the facts of folklore. It lacks origins/historical context, but that&#8217;s fair, since if it included such it would be longer than the OED.</p>
<p><i>I&#8217;m quite sure that if/when the global economy goes down the tubes and kids no longer have high-tech gizmos to mesmerize them, they&#8217;ll figure out how to play in the woods again fairly quickly. The only question at this point is whether there will still be any woods.</i></p>
<p>Truer words never said.</p>
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		<title>By: anita</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7111</link>
		<dc:creator>anita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7111</guid>
		<description>Dave, my mother Marja-Leena sent me a link to this post and I was instantly captivated and inspired, thank you so much for sharing it! I wrote about the associations it inspired on my blog, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.poplarroad.ca&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Poplar Road&lt;/a&gt; (at my mom&#039;s insistence, I admit), if you&#039;d like to take a look. Hopefully my readers head your way, I&#039;m sure they&#039;ll love your post and the Festivals of Trees. Thanks again.

[The direct link to anita&#039;s post, &quot;Hawthorn Magic,&quot; is &lt;a href=&quot;http://poplarroad.ca/archives/2008/02/hawthorn_magic.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. --Dave] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, my mother Marja-Leena sent me a link to this post and I was instantly captivated and inspired, thank you so much for sharing it! I wrote about the associations it inspired on my blog, <a href="http://www.poplarroad.ca" rel="nofollow">Poplar Road</a> (at my mom&#8217;s insistence, I admit), if you&#8217;d like to take a look. Hopefully my readers head your way, I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;ll love your post and the Festivals of Trees. Thanks again.</p>
<p>[The direct link to anita's post, "Hawthorn Magic," is <a href="http://poplarroad.ca/archives/2008/02/hawthorn_magic.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. --Dave]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7110</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2008/02/13/the-hawthorn-place/#comment-7110</guid>
		<description>CGP - Good to hear from another hawthorn fancier. Sorry to hear that your parents didn&#039;t let you wander, but I hope you&#039;re making up for that now. (Me, I&#039;m a homebody.)

rr - Was it really that much longer ago for you than for me? I&#039;d didn&#039;t think you had more than five years on me at the most. In any case, since you recommend it, I will have to try hawthorn leaves this spring.

Theriomorph - Damn, that&#039;s the kind of comment that really adds value to a post! Thanks. I&#039;ve looked at that book in the bookstore, but said to myself, &quot;Do I really want a book that labels other peoples&#039; beliefs &#039;superstitions&#039;?&quot; But I do love this kind of folklore, and feel that there might be grains of truth in it. A lot of people used to harm the trees, I gather: it was considered a great wood for tool handles of all kinds. I guess the elves didn&#039;t make the trans-Atlantic voyage. Frazier mentions the May-time use of hawthorn boughs as a relic of European tree-worship.

Sally - Feel free; links are always welcome (except from those darn splogs that ruin my Google PageRank!).

I do hope folks will follow your second link and check out your dusted-off essay about your own childhood ramblings -- terrific, as I said over there. Thanks for sharing that.

carolee - I&#039;m glad you connected with this, and found it helpful. I hope you&#039;ll come back and leave a link if you do end up posting a poem (or prose) about your secret childhood places.

I&#039;m quite sure that if/when the global economy goes down the tubes and kids no longer have high-tech gizmos to mesmerize them, they&#039;ll figure out how to play in the woods again fairly quickly. The only question at this point is whether there will still be any woods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CGP &#8211; Good to hear from another hawthorn fancier. Sorry to hear that your parents didn&#8217;t let you wander, but I hope you&#8217;re making up for that now. (Me, I&#8217;m a homebody.)</p>
<p>rr &#8211; Was it really that much longer ago for you than for me? I&#8217;d didn&#8217;t think you had more than five years on me at the most. In any case, since you recommend it, I will have to try hawthorn leaves this spring.</p>
<p>Theriomorph &#8211; Damn, that&#8217;s the kind of comment that really adds value to a post! Thanks. I&#8217;ve looked at that book in the bookstore, but said to myself, &#8220;Do I really want a book that labels other peoples&#8217; beliefs &#8216;superstitions&#8217;?&#8221; But I do love this kind of folklore, and feel that there might be grains of truth in it. A lot of people used to harm the trees, I gather: it was considered a great wood for tool handles of all kinds. I guess the elves didn&#8217;t make the trans-Atlantic voyage. Frazier mentions the May-time use of hawthorn boughs as a relic of European tree-worship.</p>
<p>Sally &#8211; Feel free; links are always welcome (except from those darn splogs that ruin my Google PageRank!).</p>
<p>I do hope folks will follow your second link and check out your dusted-off essay about your own childhood ramblings &#8212; terrific, as I said over there. Thanks for sharing that.</p>
<p>carolee &#8211; I&#8217;m glad you connected with this, and found it helpful. I hope you&#8217;ll come back and leave a link if you do end up posting a poem (or prose) about your secret childhood places.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m quite sure that if/when the global economy goes down the tubes and kids no longer have high-tech gizmos to mesmerize them, they&#8217;ll figure out how to play in the woods again fairly quickly. The only question at this point is whether there will still be any woods.</p>
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