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	Comments on: Extraordinarily ordinary	</title>
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	<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/</link>
	<description>Purveyors of fine poetry since 2003.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:47:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4949</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4949</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cheri - Thanks for a very interesting comment. It&#039;s good to know our blogs are helping provide a sense of connection for Pennsylvanian &quot;ex-pats&quot; like yourself.

We certainly shouldn&#039;t minimalize the importance of rugged terrain in focusing people&#039;s attention on the local area above all else. I think this holds true down through the Appalachians, too, where regional identity has always been definied by outsiders (and usually in a not very complementary fashion).

My father&#039;s mother&#039;s people are Yankee farmers, too, from that same Connecticut settlement period, albeit farther east, in Luzerne and Wyoming Counties. And they have also maintained a robust family reunion tradition. We have photos from their reunions in the 1940s, so I guess it&#039;s been around 60 years for them, too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheri &#8211; Thanks for a very interesting comment. It&#8217;s good to know our blogs are helping provide a sense of connection for Pennsylvanian &#8220;ex-pats&#8221; like yourself.</p>
<p>We certainly shouldn&#8217;t minimalize the importance of rugged terrain in focusing people&#8217;s attention on the local area above all else. I think this holds true down through the Appalachians, too, where regional identity has always been definied by outsiders (and usually in a not very complementary fashion).</p>
<p>My father&#8217;s mother&#8217;s people are Yankee farmers, too, from that same Connecticut settlement period, albeit farther east, in Luzerne and Wyoming Counties. And they have also maintained a robust family reunion tradition. We have photos from their reunions in the 1940s, so I guess it&#8217;s been around 60 years for them, too.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Cheri		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4948</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cheri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 02:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4948</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a NW Pennsylvania native (McKean County, more specifically the Bradford/Smethport area) now living in northern Ohio.  Your blog - and your mother&#039;s blog -  help to nourish the part of me which has never truly separated from the hills of home.
 
I absolutely agree with you about the lack of strong state identity in most Pennsylvanians as opposed to other states, including Ohio.  I believe that geography - specifically, our beautiful and rugged terrain - has also played a strong part, especially in the early days of the state&#039;s history.  &quot;My&quot; area of the state was  not even settled till about 1820 - 1830, which is probably later than any other part of the state.  The Scotch-Irish &#038; Germans who settled other parts of western PA didn&#039;t show up till about 15-20 years after the Yankees from New England  (via upstate NY) opened up the land.  (I descend from those earliest settlers on my maternal grandmother&#039;s side).

I grew up in an area of the state that is actually still considered part of the Buffalo media market.  I never saw any Pennsylvania TV station till our area was finally wired for cable in the mid-70s.  Bradford is two hours from any Pennsylvania  interstate (U.S. Route 219 will become all four-lane in oh, say, the year 2120).   These factors are enough all by themselves to discourage a strong sense of state identity.  
  
As to the &quot;rootedness&quot; of Pennsylvanians, my stepfather&#039;s family -good Germans all, with a sprinking of French ancestry  - arrived in Pennsylvania in the late 18th century and moved to Clarion County by 1840.  And altho the family now numbers in the high hundreds, I only know of one (my half-brother) who lives outside Western Pennsylvania.  In fact, most of this close-knit family lives no more than two counties away from the Clarion area.  They&#039;re about to hold their 60th annual reunion, by the way.  I have my reunion T-shirt ready to go.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a NW Pennsylvania native (McKean County, more specifically the Bradford/Smethport area) now living in northern Ohio.  Your blog &#8211; and your mother&#8217;s blog &#8211;  help to nourish the part of me which has never truly separated from the hills of home.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with you about the lack of strong state identity in most Pennsylvanians as opposed to other states, including Ohio.  I believe that geography &#8211; specifically, our beautiful and rugged terrain &#8211; has also played a strong part, especially in the early days of the state&#8217;s history.  &#8220;My&#8221; area of the state was  not even settled till about 1820 &#8211; 1830, which is probably later than any other part of the state.  The Scotch-Irish &amp; Germans who settled other parts of western PA didn&#8217;t show up till about 15-20 years after the Yankees from New England  (via upstate NY) opened up the land.  (I descend from those earliest settlers on my maternal grandmother&#8217;s side).</p>
<p>I grew up in an area of the state that is actually still considered part of the Buffalo media market.  I never saw any Pennsylvania TV station till our area was finally wired for cable in the mid-70s.  Bradford is two hours from any Pennsylvania  interstate (U.S. Route 219 will become all four-lane in oh, say, the year 2120).   These factors are enough all by themselves to discourage a strong sense of state identity.  </p>
<p>As to the &#8220;rootedness&#8221; of Pennsylvanians, my stepfather&#8217;s family -good Germans all, with a sprinking of French ancestry  &#8211; arrived in Pennsylvania in the late 18th century and moved to Clarion County by 1840.  And altho the family now numbers in the high hundreds, I only know of one (my half-brother) who lives outside Western Pennsylvania.  In fact, most of this close-knit family lives no more than two counties away from the Clarion area.  They&#8217;re about to hold their 60th annual reunion, by the way.  I have my reunion T-shirt ready to go.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4947</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4947</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Larry - Yes, that&#039;s doubtless true about state boundaries. But the study mentioned above looked not just at state identifiers but even larger regional ones, as well - Midwest, Great Lakes, New England, etc. Most Pennsylvania residents, and some folks in neighboring parts of Ohio, New York and Ontario, had no regional sense of identity at all.

Glad you liked the photos! The last one was shot from our mountain looking across at the next ridge five miles away with a telephoto, whence the haze. The middle one shows the end of our mountain from Tyrone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry &#8211; Yes, that&#8217;s doubtless true about state boundaries. But the study mentioned above looked not just at state identifiers but even larger regional ones, as well &#8211; Midwest, Great Lakes, New England, etc. Most Pennsylvania residents, and some folks in neighboring parts of Ohio, New York and Ontario, had no regional sense of identity at all.</p>
<p>Glad you liked the photos! The last one was shot from our mountain looking across at the next ridge five miles away with a telephoto, whence the haze. The middle one shows the end of our mountain from Tyrone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Larry Ayers		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4946</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Larry Ayers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4946</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BTW I meant to also say that I loved your photos illustrating the post!  The gradations of mist-filtered colors in that last one are wonderful.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW I meant to also say that I loved your photos illustrating the post!  The gradations of mist-filtered colors in that last one are wonderful.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Larry Ayers		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4945</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Larry Ayers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4945</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One reason for the lack of strong regional identity is the arbitrary nature of state borders, which often don&#039;t follow geographic bioregional borders.

Taking my home state of Missouri as an example, the northern third of the state has more in common with southern Iowa and western Illinois, while southern Illinois, southwest Missouri, and northwest Arkansas can be thought of as &quot;the Ozarks&quot;.  The bootheel SE corner of the state is part of the cotton-growing South.

I rode a motorcycle through Pennsylvania a couple of summers ago.  Afterwards I felt like I had been through at least three states!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One reason for the lack of strong regional identity is the arbitrary nature of state borders, which often don&#8217;t follow geographic bioregional borders.</p>
<p>Taking my home state of Missouri as an example, the northern third of the state has more in common with southern Iowa and western Illinois, while southern Illinois, southwest Missouri, and northwest Arkansas can be thought of as &#8220;the Ozarks&#8221;.  The bootheel SE corner of the state is part of the cotton-growing South.</p>
<p>I rode a motorcycle through Pennsylvania a couple of summers ago.  Afterwards I felt like I had been through at least three states!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4944</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 13:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4944</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sounds interesting. It does seem as if many of our patterns were established quite early, by the first waves of immigrants. How else to explain the fact that so many of de Tocqueville&#039;s and Dickens&#039; observations still seem accurate?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds interesting. It does seem as if many of our patterns were established quite early, by the first waves of immigrants. How else to explain the fact that so many of de Tocqueville&#8217;s and Dickens&#8217; observations still seem accurate?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rebecca Clayton		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4943</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rebecca Clayton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 13:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4943</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[David Hackett Fischer&#039;s book, &quot;Albion&#039;s Seed&quot; has an interesting analysis of Pennsylvania&#039;s regional culture--he traces it to the influence of the founding Quakers, and portrays it in quite a positive light.

His section on Appalachia is light on evidence and heavy on nineteenth-century &quot;local color&quot; mistaken for evidence, but the other three regional analyses seem more sound. Unfortunately, his &quot;Scotch-Irish/Appalachian&quot; region is the most cited section, supporting the  &quot;Red State/Redneck&quot; stereotypes we rural people so enjoy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Hackett Fischer&#8217;s book, &#8220;Albion&#8217;s Seed&#8221; has an interesting analysis of Pennsylvania&#8217;s regional culture&#8211;he traces it to the influence of the founding Quakers, and portrays it in quite a positive light.</p>
<p>His section on Appalachia is light on evidence and heavy on nineteenth-century &#8220;local color&#8221; mistaken for evidence, but the other three regional analyses seem more sound. Unfortunately, his &#8220;Scotch-Irish/Appalachian&#8221; region is the most cited section, supporting the  &#8220;Red State/Redneck&#8221; stereotypes we rural people so enjoy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4942</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 11:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4942</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We do have a certain strain of xenophobia here, but it&#039;s not dominant. The main thing that might drive an intellectual like yourself a little crazy if you lived in central or western Pennsylvania would be the widespread anti-intellectualism. But if you want to get away from that and still live in the country, New England and parts of the upper Midwest are probably your only options.

Hostility toward new arrivals wouldn&#039;t be such a bad thing if it translated into effective political action against the forces driving so-called development. But in most places in the rural U.S., people are extremely wary about enacting any kind of restrictive zoning, and their dislike of the way the way familar landscapes are changed and destroyed by real estate speculators turns into a seething resentment toward the people occupying all those new subdivisions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We do have a certain strain of xenophobia here, but it&#8217;s not dominant. The main thing that might drive an intellectual like yourself a little crazy if you lived in central or western Pennsylvania would be the widespread anti-intellectualism. But if you want to get away from that and still live in the country, New England and parts of the upper Midwest are probably your only options.</p>
<p>Hostility toward new arrivals wouldn&#8217;t be such a bad thing if it translated into effective political action against the forces driving so-called development. But in most places in the rural U.S., people are extremely wary about enacting any kind of restrictive zoning, and their dislike of the way the way familar landscapes are changed and destroyed by real estate speculators turns into a seething resentment toward the people occupying all those new subdivisions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brett		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4941</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4941</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would guess that most people who have lived in a lot of different places (like me) yearn very, very much for the life in place described here.  When I was boy, we moved from Colorado to Arkansas.  Unlike the Pennsylvanian lack of regional identity, the Ozark Arkansans who were our new neighbors had a often xenophobic attachment to their own, leaving little space for newcomers.  Then in Arizona (where we lived most recently), almost everyone was from somewhere else; this was coupled with a  pronouned openness to new arrivals (except undocumented immgirants or Californians!).  It would be neat to see different parts of the U.S. graphed with x being mobility and y being regional identity.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would guess that most people who have lived in a lot of different places (like me) yearn very, very much for the life in place described here.  When I was boy, we moved from Colorado to Arkansas.  Unlike the Pennsylvanian lack of regional identity, the Ozark Arkansans who were our new neighbors had a often xenophobic attachment to their own, leaving little space for newcomers.  Then in Arizona (where we lived most recently), almost everyone was from somewhere else; this was coupled with a  pronouned openness to new arrivals (except undocumented immgirants or Californians!).  It would be neat to see different parts of the U.S. graphed with x being mobility and y being regional identity.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4940</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/2007/06/07/extraordinarily-ordinary/#comment-4940</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[marja-leena - Thanks for the comment. I am sure there are some parts of Europe, and many parts of the Global South, where people are much like Pennsylvanians in their rootedness and strong valuation of community and extended family networks. Pennsylvania had many waves of immigrants, but the most influential layers were the the original Quakers; the Scotch-Irish; the Germans; and the Italian and Slavic immiagrants in the late 19th-early 20th centuries. Today, we have large numbers of Mexican and other Hispanic immigrants, on a par with other northeastern states. But the basic cultural patterns seem to have been set quite early, and I suspect the Scotch-Irish and Germans had the biggest influence over-all.

Some of this may have resulted from a sort of geographical self-sorting mechanism. Huge numbers of European immigrants came through Philadelphia - as many as Ellis Island - and headed west through the state. It&#039;s easy to imagine those who were most easily contented deciding to settle in Pennsylvania, while their restless siblings forged on in search of greener pastures.  So, aside from the Scotch-Irish, who were hell-raisers, maybe we ended up with a lot of people who were just motivated enough to get on a boat, but weren&#039;t terribly restless otherwise. And of course we got a lot of persecuted religious minorities due to the famous Quaker tolerance, most notably the Amish and Mennonites.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>marja-leena &#8211; Thanks for the comment. I am sure there are some parts of Europe, and many parts of the Global South, where people are much like Pennsylvanians in their rootedness and strong valuation of community and extended family networks. Pennsylvania had many waves of immigrants, but the most influential layers were the the original Quakers; the Scotch-Irish; the Germans; and the Italian and Slavic immiagrants in the late 19th-early 20th centuries. Today, we have large numbers of Mexican and other Hispanic immigrants, on a par with other northeastern states. But the basic cultural patterns seem to have been set quite early, and I suspect the Scotch-Irish and Germans had the biggest influence over-all.</p>
<p>Some of this may have resulted from a sort of geographical self-sorting mechanism. Huge numbers of European immigrants came through Philadelphia &#8211; as many as Ellis Island &#8211; and headed west through the state. It&#8217;s easy to imagine those who were most easily contented deciding to settle in Pennsylvania, while their restless siblings forged on in search of greener pastures.  So, aside from the Scotch-Irish, who were hell-raisers, maybe we ended up with a lot of people who were just motivated enough to get on a boat, but weren&#8217;t terribly restless otherwise. And of course we got a lot of persecuted religious minorities due to the famous Quaker tolerance, most notably the Amish and Mennonites.</p>
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