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	<title>
	Comments on: Stalking the wild lady&#8217;s-slipper orchid	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/</link>
	<description>Purveyors of fine poetry since 2003.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Jean		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8170</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8170</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Such a pleasure to walk with you through your woods.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a pleasure to walk with you through your woods.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sherry Chandler		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8169</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sherry Chandler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 00:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8169</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve seen very few lady slippers here in Kentucky. There used to be some in the holler below my mother&#039;s house but I haven&#039;t been down there for a while. You are fortunate to have so many.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen very few lady slippers here in Kentucky. There used to be some in the holler below my mother&#8217;s house but I haven&#8217;t been down there for a while. You are fortunate to have so many.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8168</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8168</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This section of our woods is probably around 125 years old. But the chestnuts all died around 75 years ago and were presumably logged out at that time, and other firewood cutting too undoubtedly took place. The oldest trees on our property go back to 1815 or so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This section of our woods is probably around 125 years old. But the chestnuts all died around 75 years ago and were presumably logged out at that time, and other firewood cutting too undoubtedly took place. The oldest trees on our property go back to 1815 or so.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rurality		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8167</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rurality]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8167</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Very different from here! How long since this area was logged?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very different from here! How long since this area was logged?</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8166</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 01:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8166</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The poison ivy rarely intrudes into the heath-chestnut oak forest type, which is strongly layered: a ground cover of wintergreen, trailing arbutus, moss and lycopodiums, followed by a low shrub layer of huckleberry and lowbush blueberry -- which is what you&#039;re seeing here -- followed by a medium shrub layer of mountain laurel, azalaea and rhododendron and a high shrub layer of witch hazel and serviceberry.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The poison ivy rarely intrudes into the heath-chestnut oak forest type, which is strongly layered: a ground cover of wintergreen, trailing arbutus, moss and lycopodiums, followed by a low shrub layer of huckleberry and lowbush blueberry &#8212; which is what you&#8217;re seeing here &#8212; followed by a medium shrub layer of mountain laurel, azalaea and rhododendron and a high shrub layer of witch hazel and serviceberry.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Rurality		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8165</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rurality]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8165</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Love, love, love the orchids! But where is all your poison ivy? The underbrush all seems a consistent height, too.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love, love, love the orchids! But where is all your poison ivy? The underbrush all seems a consistent height, too.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8164</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8164</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neither -- that&#039;s a wood thrush. (I &lt;em&gt;wish&lt;/em&gt; we had hermit thrushes. But we&#039;re not quite high enough in elevation, I don&#039;t think.)

Commodification, yes -- thanks for supplying the essential missing concept here. But as you say, there may be some value in shows like Animal Planet and Sierra Club wall calendar eco-porn if it leads people to support conservation measures.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither &#8212; that&#8217;s a wood thrush. (I <em>wish</em> we had hermit thrushes. But we&#8217;re not quite high enough in elevation, I don&#8217;t think.)</p>
<p>Commodification, yes &#8212; thanks for supplying the essential missing concept here. But as you say, there may be some value in shows like Animal Planet and Sierra Club wall calendar eco-porn if it leads people to support conservation measures.</p>
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		<title>
		By: robin andrea		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8163</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[robin andrea]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8163</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Eco-porn&quot; is a new one for me. Although it shouldn&#039;t be a surprise in an age of eco-tourism. We live like nature is something that only happens outside, and outside of ourselves. I think it&#039;s a good thing that eco documentaries try to reveal a bit of what is going on in the natural world, even when they provide a stage for the occurrence. If it encourages one person to work to save habitat, then it&#039;s accomplished something. Still, it&#039;s an interesting balance to strike when everything is reduced or exalted to commodity.

I think I heard a beautiful thrush song in your video. Swainson&#039;s or Hermit?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Eco-porn&#8221; is a new one for me. Although it shouldn&#8217;t be a surprise in an age of eco-tourism. We live like nature is something that only happens outside, and outside of ourselves. I think it&#8217;s a good thing that eco documentaries try to reveal a bit of what is going on in the natural world, even when they provide a stage for the occurrence. If it encourages one person to work to save habitat, then it&#8217;s accomplished something. Still, it&#8217;s an interesting balance to strike when everything is reduced or exalted to commodity.</p>
<p>I think I heard a beautiful thrush song in your video. Swainson&#8217;s or Hermit?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8162</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8162</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[marja-leena - &lt;em&gt;Heh, I first read ’stalking the wild lady’!&lt;/em&gt; Yeah, when I first thought of calling it that I was bothered by what seemed like an unwelcome association, but then I decided that was the real attraction of the video, if any (especially after I discovered Bug Girl&#039;s post on nature porn).

Lee&#039;s River - Glad those were useful. It&#039;s always nice to find such solid support for my own semi-informed bloviating.

Jo - Interesting. That &quot;yuck&quot; reaction speaks volumes about our alienation from nature and from our own bodies, I think.

Harry - Thanks for the lengthy and solid response. I certainly don&#039;t have a problem with that kind of filmmaking as long as viewers are informed about its provenance, though in many cases I think that could be done right within the narration. I&#039;m actually more bothered by the naive expectation of many viewers that the camera is a passive mirror of reality, and that any attempt to impose a storyline detracts from the authenticity. This is I think closely related to the assumption that nature and artifice have nothing in common, and that therefore the proper role of wildlife photographers and filmmakers is to depict a world in which humans have little impact. It&#039;s that kind of assumption that feeds the idealizing objectification at the heart of eco-porn.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>marja-leena &#8211; <em>Heh, I first read ’stalking the wild lady’!</em> Yeah, when I first thought of calling it that I was bothered by what seemed like an unwelcome association, but then I decided that was the real attraction of the video, if any (especially after I discovered Bug Girl&#8217;s post on nature porn).</p>
<p>Lee&#8217;s River &#8211; Glad those were useful. It&#8217;s always nice to find such solid support for my own semi-informed bloviating.</p>
<p>Jo &#8211; Interesting. That &#8220;yuck&#8221; reaction speaks volumes about our alienation from nature and from our own bodies, I think.</p>
<p>Harry &#8211; Thanks for the lengthy and solid response. I certainly don&#8217;t have a problem with that kind of filmmaking as long as viewers are informed about its provenance, though in many cases I think that could be done right within the narration. I&#8217;m actually more bothered by the naive expectation of many viewers that the camera is a passive mirror of reality, and that any attempt to impose a storyline detracts from the authenticity. This is I think closely related to the assumption that nature and artifice have nothing in common, and that therefore the proper role of wildlife photographers and filmmakers is to depict a world in which humans have little impact. It&#8217;s that kind of assumption that feeds the idealizing objectification at the heart of eco-porn.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Harry		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/06/stalking-the-wild-ladys-slipper-orchid/#comment-8161</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 07:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=2402#comment-8161</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I once went on a wildlife holiday led by someone who was a producer at the BBC natural history department, and he was full of amusing anecdotes about the process of making documentaries. It became quite clear that, particularly with smaller animals, they do a fair amount of work with captive animals — filming in aquariums, for example — and his argument was that as long as the behaviour being filmed was natural behaviour, that was OK.

On the whole I agree with him; for example,  in the scene mentioned in one of those links where David Attenborough demonstrates the spitting of a spitting cobra, does it really matter that the cobra was from a snake farm, and put there just before filming? The important thing is surely that it enabled them to get great footage of it spraying him with venom. Given that he came prepared with a welder&#039;s mask that had been treated to show up pink in the presence of venom, I don&#039;t suppose anyone watching thought it was just a chance encounter.

There&#039;s certainly a question about whether you can ever completely rely on behaviour being &#039;natural&#039; in a captive animal, even if it&#039;s just coral spawning in a fish tank; and also there&#039;s an issue about the extent to which you are misleading the viewers — it might be more honest to have just filmed the cobra sequence at the snake farm instead of staging it in the bush, for example — but on the whole I think that they are using all their ingenuity to find ways to get footage they couldn&#039;t otherwise get, rather than trying to cheat. That&#039;s the BBC, at least: there have been some genuinely appalling examples of faked wildlife documentaries.

I think it&#039;s good that in recent series they have had a little feature at the end of the show explaining how things were filmed, because it helps demystify it a bit; and they are quite open about the fact that they might film spider behaviour in a university lab somewhere rather than in the field. Of course those sections probably don&#039;t make it to the US, because part of their function is to fill up the time that will be used for ads when the series is sold to other countries.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once went on a wildlife holiday led by someone who was a producer at the BBC natural history department, and he was full of amusing anecdotes about the process of making documentaries. It became quite clear that, particularly with smaller animals, they do a fair amount of work with captive animals — filming in aquariums, for example — and his argument was that as long as the behaviour being filmed was natural behaviour, that was OK.</p>
<p>On the whole I agree with him; for example,  in the scene mentioned in one of those links where David Attenborough demonstrates the spitting of a spitting cobra, does it really matter that the cobra was from a snake farm, and put there just before filming? The important thing is surely that it enabled them to get great footage of it spraying him with venom. Given that he came prepared with a welder&#8217;s mask that had been treated to show up pink in the presence of venom, I don&#8217;t suppose anyone watching thought it was just a chance encounter.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s certainly a question about whether you can ever completely rely on behaviour being &#8216;natural&#8217; in a captive animal, even if it&#8217;s just coral spawning in a fish tank; and also there&#8217;s an issue about the extent to which you are misleading the viewers — it might be more honest to have just filmed the cobra sequence at the snake farm instead of staging it in the bush, for example — but on the whole I think that they are using all their ingenuity to find ways to get footage they couldn&#8217;t otherwise get, rather than trying to cheat. That&#8217;s the BBC, at least: there have been some genuinely appalling examples of faked wildlife documentaries.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s good that in recent series they have had a little feature at the end of the show explaining how things were filmed, because it helps demystify it a bit; and they are quite open about the fact that they might film spider behaviour in a university lab somewhere rather than in the field. Of course those sections probably don&#8217;t make it to the US, because part of their function is to fill up the time that will be used for ads when the series is sold to other countries.</p>
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