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	Comments on: Extremities	</title>
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	<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/12/extremities/</link>
	<description>Purveyors of fine poetry since 2003.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/12/extremities/#comment-9506</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=3369#comment-9506</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi slynne! Thanks for kind words, and I&#039;m glad to know you&#039;re a fellow fan of winter for writing. People talk about the lack of sunlight, but the flip side of that is that the sun is always at a good angle for shadows and dramatic contrasts. And if you live in the woods, winter is actually more light-filled than summer. And I love the long nights and slow dawns. So there are multiple sources of inspiration for me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi slynne! Thanks for kind words, and I&#8217;m glad to know you&#8217;re a fellow fan of winter for writing. People talk about the lack of sunlight, but the flip side of that is that the sun is always at a good angle for shadows and dramatic contrasts. And if you live in the woods, winter is actually more light-filled than summer. And I love the long nights and slow dawns. So there are multiple sources of inspiration for me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: slynne		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/12/extremities/#comment-9505</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[slynne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=3369#comment-9505</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dave: 
I&#039;ve always said that I do my best work over winter.  I think its my effort to fill in the leaves in the tree.

I love this poem, everything about it.  I love letter poems a lot a lot.  And the opening image is perfectly drawn.

Also, thank you for encouraging Dana to share her MFA statement.  It was great.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave:<br />
I&#8217;ve always said that I do my best work over winter.  I think its my effort to fill in the leaves in the tree.</p>
<p>I love this poem, everything about it.  I love letter poems a lot a lot.  And the opening image is perfectly drawn.</p>
<p>Also, thank you for encouraging Dana to share her MFA statement.  It was great.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dana		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/12/extremities/#comment-9504</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=3369#comment-9504</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dave, I mean you overall, not just your writing. You are kinda extra awesome right now.

I should do scansion on some of your poems. It would help me see the beats better. I read your work and I don’t realize that you are writing in a certain number of beats per line. This must mean that you do it very naturally. Or that I am a lazy reader. ;)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the line. It’s all very interesting to me. Nathan and I have been talking a lot – a lot a lot – about the line. It’s interesting to see what different people do, how they approach it. And, um, you are not a lazy cuss. Nobody is going to buy that assertion for a minute.

Yes, stanzas. That’s a whole nuther issue, isn’t it? I have seen and even occasionally written exactly what you talk about from time to time – regular stanzas whose final line are sometimes end-stopped and sometimes enjambed. I don’t know how I feel about the effect. If I want a strict structure where every stanza is the same number of lines, I try to have a reason for that structure. I feel like the poem needs to work with the form, and that the stanza breaks need to make some kind of sense – enjambed or not. I try to think of it like music. Where is an eight rest needed? Where is a quarter rest needed? A half rest? To me, the stanza break is like a half rest. I think the break can be end stopped or enjambed, as long as there is a reason for the poem to “hang” in that spot for a half rest. Is the half rest really warranted? Would a simple line break, which is about half as much of a rest, do the trick?

I often find myself rewriting and tightening to make a poem fit the way I want to score it. The paring can be a good exercise and strengthen the piece, but there’s always the fear that the content will bend too much to fit the form, and then the content will take a back seat to form, which would not be a good thing.

Of course you make sense. Everything you say makes sense and is very thoughtful. Your habits and preferences as a reader serve you well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I mean you overall, not just your writing. You are kinda extra awesome right now.</p>
<p>I should do scansion on some of your poems. It would help me see the beats better. I read your work and I don’t realize that you are writing in a certain number of beats per line. This must mean that you do it very naturally. Or that I am a lazy reader. ;)</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the line. It’s all very interesting to me. Nathan and I have been talking a lot – a lot a lot – about the line. It’s interesting to see what different people do, how they approach it. And, um, you are not a lazy cuss. Nobody is going to buy that assertion for a minute.</p>
<p>Yes, stanzas. That’s a whole nuther issue, isn’t it? I have seen and even occasionally written exactly what you talk about from time to time – regular stanzas whose final line are sometimes end-stopped and sometimes enjambed. I don’t know how I feel about the effect. If I want a strict structure where every stanza is the same number of lines, I try to have a reason for that structure. I feel like the poem needs to work with the form, and that the stanza breaks need to make some kind of sense – enjambed or not. I try to think of it like music. Where is an eight rest needed? Where is a quarter rest needed? A half rest? To me, the stanza break is like a half rest. I think the break can be end stopped or enjambed, as long as there is a reason for the poem to “hang” in that spot for a half rest. Is the half rest really warranted? Would a simple line break, which is about half as much of a rest, do the trick?</p>
<p>I often find myself rewriting and tightening to make a poem fit the way I want to score it. The paring can be a good exercise and strengthen the piece, but there’s always the fear that the content will bend too much to fit the form, and then the content will take a back seat to form, which would not be a good thing.</p>
<p>Of course you make sense. Everything you say makes sense and is very thoughtful. Your habits and preferences as a reader serve you well.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/12/extremities/#comment-9503</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=3369#comment-9503</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dana - I always do my best work in the winter. I wasn&#039;t sure this poem qualified, though. (It seems like it&#039;s missing something - not sure what. I&#039;ll have to remember to revisit it in a couple of months.)

Lines: eek. I don&#039;t have any consistent approach; it depends on the poem. But my language is always highly rhythmic and tending toward pentameter, and lately I&#039;ve been doing four beats to (most) lines to try and maintain a dynamic tension. I admire poems with a lot of enjambment, but I&#039;m not always too successful with that myself. So usually my line breaks permit at least a slight pause, though they don&#039;t presume it. I also pay attention to line length in most (but not all) poems. I do feel that poets over the last 100 years or so have focused too much on the eye and not enough on the ear; I think that most of the time we need to be conscious of both in roughly equal measure. For example, as a reader, much neo-formalist verse leaves me fairly cold, with its end-rhymes obvious only to the eye, but I love poems where rhymes fall at regular, metrical intervals but are hidden by the arrangement of line breaks, so that one only discovers them after a second reading, or by reading out loud. Ai does this especially well. If I weren&#039;t such a lazy cuss, I&#039;d try to write poems like that myself more often.

One can&#039;t discuss line theory without considering stanzas, too. I&#039;ve noticed in American poetry over the last couple decades a strong trend toward poems that create an illusion of order with regular stanzas of two, three or four lines. Almost every poem in the book I was reading this morning, for example - Doty&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Atlantis&lt;/em&gt; - does this. Often the breaks seem completely arbitrary, but they do appeal to the eye, and the addition of white space can make a long poem easier to take in, for some reason. I won&#039;t deny I&#039;ve experimented with that approach, but I don&#039;t really understand it. So most of the time, if I have stanza breaks, they fall where paragraph breaks would if it were prose. This reinforces a tendency to make lines break along (slight) semantic divisions, too. Of course, in a poem whose momentum depends in part on non sequitors, like the one above, a lack of stanza breaks can be much more effective, I think.

Does any of this make sense? I apologize for the imprecision of my terminology. As you know, I&#039;ve never taken a poetry workshop, and have rarely read any theory, so this is all stuff I&#039;ve come up with on my own, based on my habits and preferences as a reader. I think you and I share a basic, populist presumption that one shouldn&#039;t require any specialized knowledge to read and understand a poem. This more than anything predisposes me to favor less artifical-seeming arrangements of words on the page.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dana &#8211; I always do my best work in the winter. I wasn&#8217;t sure this poem qualified, though. (It seems like it&#8217;s missing something &#8211; not sure what. I&#8217;ll have to remember to revisit it in a couple of months.)</p>
<p>Lines: eek. I don&#8217;t have any consistent approach; it depends on the poem. But my language is always highly rhythmic and tending toward pentameter, and lately I&#8217;ve been doing four beats to (most) lines to try and maintain a dynamic tension. I admire poems with a lot of enjambment, but I&#8217;m not always too successful with that myself. So usually my line breaks permit at least a slight pause, though they don&#8217;t presume it. I also pay attention to line length in most (but not all) poems. I do feel that poets over the last 100 years or so have focused too much on the eye and not enough on the ear; I think that most of the time we need to be conscious of both in roughly equal measure. For example, as a reader, much neo-formalist verse leaves me fairly cold, with its end-rhymes obvious only to the eye, but I love poems where rhymes fall at regular, metrical intervals but are hidden by the arrangement of line breaks, so that one only discovers them after a second reading, or by reading out loud. Ai does this especially well. If I weren&#8217;t such a lazy cuss, I&#8217;d try to write poems like that myself more often.</p>
<p>One can&#8217;t discuss line theory without considering stanzas, too. I&#8217;ve noticed in American poetry over the last couple decades a strong trend toward poems that create an illusion of order with regular stanzas of two, three or four lines. Almost every poem in the book I was reading this morning, for example &#8211; Doty&#8217;s <em>Atlantis</em> &#8211; does this. Often the breaks seem completely arbitrary, but they do appeal to the eye, and the addition of white space can make a long poem easier to take in, for some reason. I won&#8217;t deny I&#8217;ve experimented with that approach, but I don&#8217;t really understand it. So most of the time, if I have stanza breaks, they fall where paragraph breaks would if it were prose. This reinforces a tendency to make lines break along (slight) semantic divisions, too. Of course, in a poem whose momentum depends in part on non sequitors, like the one above, a lack of stanza breaks can be much more effective, I think.</p>
<p>Does any of this make sense? I apologize for the imprecision of my terminology. As you know, I&#8217;ve never taken a poetry workshop, and have rarely read any theory, so this is all stuff I&#8217;ve come up with on my own, based on my habits and preferences as a reader. I think you and I share a basic, populist presumption that one shouldn&#8217;t require any specialized knowledge to read and understand a poem. This more than anything predisposes me to favor less artifical-seeming arrangements of words on the page.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Dana		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2008/12/extremities/#comment-9502</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=3369#comment-9502</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dave, you are being really touching and amazing in a whole lotta ways these days. What&#039;s up? Winter must suit you.

Hey, how do you choose your line breaks? I&#039;ve been thinking about the line and line breaks a lot lately. I might have asked you this before, but please indulge me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, you are being really touching and amazing in a whole lotta ways these days. What&#8217;s up? Winter must suit you.</p>
<p>Hey, how do you choose your line breaks? I&#8217;ve been thinking about the line and line breaks a lot lately. I might have asked you this before, but please indulge me.</p>
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