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	<title>
	Comments on: Loggerhead	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/</link>
	<description>Purveyors of fine poetry since 2003.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Turtle words		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13881</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Turtle words]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13881</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] readers of this blog will recognize both the poem and the statement on poetics. Publications that consider previously blogged work are unfortunately [...] ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] readers of this blog will recognize both the poem and the statement on poetics. Publications that consider previously blogged work are unfortunately [&#8230;] </p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13880</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 20:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13880</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13878&quot;&gt;Clive Hicks-Jenkins&lt;/a&gt;.

It may also help to remember that mainline (non-fundamentalist) Christianity probably includes far more people who entertain a healthy skepticism and &quot;live the questions&quot; than it does those whose minds are made up, precise and antispetic, like hospital beds.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13878">Clive Hicks-Jenkins</a>.</p>
<p>It may also help to remember that mainline (non-fundamentalist) Christianity probably includes far more people who entertain a healthy skepticism and &#8220;live the questions&#8221; than it does those whose minds are made up, precise and antispetic, like hospital beds.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13879</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 20:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13879</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13878&quot;&gt;Clive Hicks-Jenkins&lt;/a&gt;.

Perfectly understandable. Piety and dogma are repellent to me as well. But you can have fun with the pious souls rather than getting mad: ask them why God rebuked Job&#039;s friends, for example, or why God tried to kill Moses on his way back into Egypt after the fateful encounter with the burning bush.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13878">Clive Hicks-Jenkins</a>.</p>
<p>Perfectly understandable. Piety and dogma are repellent to me as well. But you can have fun with the pious souls rather than getting mad: ask them why God rebuked Job&#8217;s friends, for example, or why God tried to kill Moses on his way back into Egypt after the fateful encounter with the burning bush.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Clive Hicks-Jenkins		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13878</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clive Hicks-Jenkins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 18:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13878</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13877&quot;&gt;Dave&lt;/a&gt;.

Forgive me, I was ranting. I have such a complicated relationship with the bible. You&#039;re quite right about the passages extolling both the wilderness and the pastoral. There&#039;s ravishing beauty in it when you know where to look. (Well, in the King James version at any rate.)

I&#039;m doing so much work at the moment based on bible texts that I should be more balanced.  It catches me out from time to time when someone throws a piece of dogma my way, as happens a bit too often. (It comes with the territory when you paint Annunciations!) Then I get all mean and nasty and go for the jugular. I shouldn&#039;t get bogged down in the bad stuff. I should take more care.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13877">Dave</a>.</p>
<p>Forgive me, I was ranting. I have such a complicated relationship with the bible. You&#8217;re quite right about the passages extolling both the wilderness and the pastoral. There&#8217;s ravishing beauty in it when you know where to look. (Well, in the King James version at any rate.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m doing so much work at the moment based on bible texts that I should be more balanced.  It catches me out from time to time when someone throws a piece of dogma my way, as happens a bit too often. (It comes with the territory when you paint Annunciations!) Then I get all mean and nasty and go for the jugular. I shouldn&#8217;t get bogged down in the bad stuff. I should take more care.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13877</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 May 2010 17:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13877</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13876&quot;&gt;Clive Hicks-Jenkins&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;That single notion within Christian and Judaic cultures has underwritten every wretched cruelty and act of violence visited upon the fauna of our planet.&quot; Would that it were that simple. Unfortunately, I think anthropocentrism is neither unique to Western monotheism nor a necessary precondition for cruelty and violence against animals. Domestication was the original sin, and it took place long before the Bible was written, in many different parts of the world. To me, the Bible evinces more appreciation for the wild (and the pastoral) than most other sacred texts, and for every damaging statement one can find -- the vision in Isaiah about the wolf lying down with the lamb is my least-faviorite passage, for example -- one can find  another passage extolling the virtues of untrammelled nature. Wilderness played a pivotal role in the Exodus story, let&#039;s remember, as well as in the lives of such pivotal figures as David, Elijah, and Jesus. Contrast that with the wholly anthropocentric, world-denigrating scriptures of, say, Theravadin Buddhism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13876">Clive Hicks-Jenkins</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;That single notion within Christian and Judaic cultures has underwritten every wretched cruelty and act of violence visited upon the fauna of our planet.&#8221; Would that it were that simple. Unfortunately, I think anthropocentrism is neither unique to Western monotheism nor a necessary precondition for cruelty and violence against animals. Domestication was the original sin, and it took place long before the Bible was written, in many different parts of the world. To me, the Bible evinces more appreciation for the wild (and the pastoral) than most other sacred texts, and for every damaging statement one can find &#8212; the vision in Isaiah about the wolf lying down with the lamb is my least-faviorite passage, for example &#8212; one can find  another passage extolling the virtues of untrammelled nature. Wilderness played a pivotal role in the Exodus story, let&#8217;s remember, as well as in the lives of such pivotal figures as David, Elijah, and Jesus. Contrast that with the wholly anthropocentric, world-denigrating scriptures of, say, Theravadin Buddhism.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Clive Hicks-Jenkins		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13876</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clive Hicks-Jenkins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 06:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13876</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I blame whoever came up with the idea about  God giving man dominion over the animals! That single notion within Christian and Judaic cultures has underwritten every wretched cruelty and act of violence visited upon the fauna of our planet. People figured out that they had the OK from a higher authority! But even had it not been there in black and white, together with all the other horrors that any idiot with a bible to belt can find to underwrite their stupid prejudices and cruelty, I&#039;m sure there would always have been those who would be cruel to animals, not necessarily for gain... though that of course has fuelled our unspeakable farming practices... but because they like to hurt things. It can&#039;t be got away from. Humans can be many fine things, but they are also hazardous to life, both their own and that of every other wretched creature jostling for space on the planet.

(This from a man who was in torment because he had to shut in the Shetland pony all day while the fencers re-configured the paddocks!)

I would like to hunt down the people who put that turtle in a box, and then do something fairly unspeakable to them. Except of course I couldn&#039;t, because I don&#039;t have that kind of cruelty in me. Or maybe it&#039;s not that I don&#039;t have the cruelty... I am after all human and capable of anything... but more because I have a highly (some might say overly) developed sense of empathy. Empathy stays the hand. Encourage empathy in your children. They&#039;ll be better human beings for it.

A turtle in a box. It makes me weep.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blame whoever came up with the idea about  God giving man dominion over the animals! That single notion within Christian and Judaic cultures has underwritten every wretched cruelty and act of violence visited upon the fauna of our planet. People figured out that they had the OK from a higher authority! But even had it not been there in black and white, together with all the other horrors that any idiot with a bible to belt can find to underwrite their stupid prejudices and cruelty, I&#8217;m sure there would always have been those who would be cruel to animals, not necessarily for gain&#8230; though that of course has fuelled our unspeakable farming practices&#8230; but because they like to hurt things. It can&#8217;t be got away from. Humans can be many fine things, but they are also hazardous to life, both their own and that of every other wretched creature jostling for space on the planet.</p>
<p>(This from a man who was in torment because he had to shut in the Shetland pony all day while the fencers re-configured the paddocks!)</p>
<p>I would like to hunt down the people who put that turtle in a box, and then do something fairly unspeakable to them. Except of course I couldn&#8217;t, because I don&#8217;t have that kind of cruelty in me. Or maybe it&#8217;s not that I don&#8217;t have the cruelty&#8230; I am after all human and capable of anything&#8230; but more because I have a highly (some might say overly) developed sense of empathy. Empathy stays the hand. Encourage empathy in your children. They&#8217;ll be better human beings for it.</p>
<p>A turtle in a box. It makes me weep.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tweets that mention Loggerhead &#124; Via Negativa -- Topsy.com		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13875</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tweets that mention Loggerhead &#124; Via Negativa -- Topsy.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 03:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13875</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by John Robert Ladd, Dave Riddell. Dave Riddell said: &#034;Loggerhead&#034; by Dave Bonta (@morningporch) http://bit.ly/cpwy5u #poetry [...] ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] This post was mentioned on Twitter by John Robert Ladd, Dave Riddell. Dave Riddell said: &quot;Loggerhead&quot; by Dave Bonta (@morningporch) <a href="http://bit.ly/cpwy5u" rel="nofollow ugc">http://bit.ly/cpwy5u</a> #poetry [&#8230;] </p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13874</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 01:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13874</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13871&quot;&gt;James&lt;/a&gt;.

Well, I think biologists are moving farily rapdily away from that old terror of being found guilty of anthropomorphizing. The evidence is just too overwhelming for emotion, cognition, and that big bugbear, consciousness, in other animals. It would be exceedingly strange if we were the only species to possess these things.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13871">James</a>.</p>
<p>Well, I think biologists are moving farily rapdily away from that old terror of being found guilty of anthropomorphizing. The evidence is just too overwhelming for emotion, cognition, and that big bugbear, consciousness, in other animals. It would be exceedingly strange if we were the only species to possess these things.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 01:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13872&quot;&gt;Jason Riedy&lt;/a&gt;.

Such a sad story. I hate seeing wild animals in cages. Thanks for the comment, though.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13872">Jason Riedy</a>.</p>
<p>Such a sad story. I hate seeing wild animals in cages. Thanks for the comment, though.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason Riedy		</title>
		<link>https://www.vianegativa.us/2010/05/loggerhead/#comment-13872</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Riedy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 00:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vianegativa.us/?p=7666#comment-13872</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The first sea turtle I saw was kept in a box only slightly larger than it was.  The box was kept on a pier at Clearwater beach.  I&#039;ll always remember that.  I&#039;d go see the turtle and marvel at how nothing was left within that box except a barely-there body.  Then look over the pier&#039;s edge to see horseshoe crabs and rays snatching up every scrap of whatever people laughingly tossed over.

Spotting a wild turtle was a delightful rarity.  Now it&#039;s dreadfully rare.  I hope they don&#039;t feel grief.

Wonderful rendering of the life we never get to see (for &quot;we&quot; being &quot;almost everyone&quot;).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first sea turtle I saw was kept in a box only slightly larger than it was.  The box was kept on a pier at Clearwater beach.  I&#8217;ll always remember that.  I&#8217;d go see the turtle and marvel at how nothing was left within that box except a barely-there body.  Then look over the pier&#8217;s edge to see horseshoe crabs and rays snatching up every scrap of whatever people laughingly tossed over.</p>
<p>Spotting a wild turtle was a delightful rarity.  Now it&#8217;s dreadfully rare.  I hope they don&#8217;t feel grief.</p>
<p>Wonderful rendering of the life we never get to see (for &#8220;we&#8221; being &#8220;almost everyone&#8221;).</p>
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